West v Sturt

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Re: West v Sturt

Post by The Axis on Sun May 14, 2017 4:09 pm

You are spot on TAAARS. When things are bleak the coach cops all the blame. With bad luck, injuries, and a lack of personnel even the greatest coaches will struggle.  Alastair Clarkson & John Longmire  as examples. Are they suddenly poor coaches?
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by Wolf Pack on Sun May 14, 2017 4:23 pm

In regards to the coach it usually comes down to the win loss record.
Since our premiership that record is 2 wins and 21 losses.
Yes we have injury problems but all clubs do.
It isn't good enough. End of Story.
I certainly don't expect this group to be at the top end of the ladder but losing every week is not acceptable, particularly when we have been in winning positions in at least 3 of our games this year!!
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Sun May 14, 2017 4:56 pm

So who is responsible for the poor list then?


Actually don't think anyone has said sack the coach either but if we continue this way it will be 3 wooden spoons also to go with the premiership
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by TAAARS on Sun May 14, 2017 7:37 pm

[quote="brodlach"]So who is responsible for the poor list then?

Well the recruiting committee has to take some of the blame of course in not identifying our needs correctly and getting those key players. However to be fair that is easier said than done. It takes money. And that is where we all should shoulder some blame. How many of us put in cash last time it was called for toward player recruiting? If the membership went up to $100 minimum the howls of protest would be heard for miles. We even get grizzles on this site each year about the lack of gifts in the membership pack! Fair go, do we want a decent footy team or a Christmas hamper?
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by aldo russian on Sun May 14, 2017 7:39 pm

Mickan is a legend of the club and deserves to be treated with great respect. But by the same token, reappointing a coach whose contract is expiring after two consecutive wooden spoons would, I'd guess, be unprecedented in the history of the competition.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Sun May 14, 2017 8:10 pm

TAAARS wrote:
brodlach wrote:So who is responsible for the poor list then?

Well the recruiting committee has to take some of the blame of course in not identifying our needs correctly and getting those key players. However to be fair that is easier said than done. It takes money. And that is where we all should shoulder some blame. How many of us put in cash last time it was called for toward player recruiting? If the membership went up to $100 minimum the howls of protest would be heard for miles. We even get grizzles on this site each year about the lack of gifts in the membership pack! Fair go, do we want a decent footy team or a Christmas hamper?
I agree with everything you have said and I'm not saying these things to be controversial, I want us to be a long standing successful club but the recruiting really concerns me.

We got Bates and Tommy back who were retuning players who were always going to return, Bately and Peter who came to us and asked to play for the club and Wilson who is a great get. To recruit one player is not good enough IMO.

Either no one wants cone to play for West, we are looking at the wrong players or the recruiting committee cannot close the deal. I think it's a little of all three.

Ruckman are hard to come by but how has the club not developed a single one in the past 10 years? I really feel for Daniel Webb as he is a forward not a ruckman and that's the reason he picks up injuries. He tried his guts out.

I could be bring up some other things but in this forum it would be well received so I will keep quiet.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by Wolf Pack on Sun May 14, 2017 9:24 pm

brodlach wrote:So who is responsible for the poor list then?


Actually don't think anyone has said sack the coach either  but if we continue this way it will be 3 wooden spoons also to go with the premiership

For the record, we finished 9th in Mickan's first year at the club.
The Bays got the wooden spoon. Laughing
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by aldo russian on Sun May 14, 2017 9:32 pm

Recruiting is one issue, another that gets very little mention here is the poor quality of our zones. We have been ranked down the bottom of participation rates in SANFL zones for years and years. A few years up the top of that list might make life a little easier.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Mon May 15, 2017 8:56 am

aldo russian wrote:Recruiting is one issue, another that gets very little mention here is the poor quality of our zones. We have been ranked down the bottom of participation rates in SANFL zones for years and years. A few years up the top of that list might make life a little easier.
100% agree Aldo (although in my mind they are one in the same)


Surely there is a ruckman in the past 10 years in our country area?
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Mon May 15, 2017 8:57 am

Wolf Pack wrote:
brodlach wrote:So who is responsible for the poor list then?


Actually don't think anyone has said sack the coach either  but if we continue this way it will be 3 wooden spoons also to go with the premiership

For the record, we finished 9th in Mickan's first year at the club.
The Bays got the wooden spoon. Laughing

That makes it all the better then Laughing Embarassed
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by aldo russian on Mon May 15, 2017 8:50 pm

brodlach wrote:

We got Bates and Tommy back who were retuning players who were always going to return, Bately and Peter who came to us and asked to play for the club and Wilson who is a great get. To recruit one player is not good enough IMO.

Either no one wants cone to play for West, we are looking at the wrong players or the recruiting committee cannot close the deal. I think it's a little of all three.


It's not true that Bates and Keough were always going to return. I've been told Keough was seriously considering staying in Qld because he loved the lifestyle. The club also has to negotiate and agree terms that these guys will accept. I also understand that Batley was pursued by the club for some time and didn't walk in our front door. Wilson was pursued for a couple of years.
Also, I'm pretty sure deals are closed by CEOs and coaches, not recruiting committees.

It's also worth noting that, I think, only 3 players were recruited to SANFL clubs this year from interstate. It's much harder to get players to shift to SANFL clubs than it was even five years ago.
But I agree that our recruiting needs to improve. Quite how that can be achieved I have little idea.

When Andy Collins coached, he basically did all the recruiting himself. He had extensive contacts, and his knowledge of state league players is exceptional. The down side to that is that when he left, it left the club with no recruiting structure in place and no catalogue of information on players. This, I think, is what the club needs to address for the future.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Mon May 15, 2017 9:37 pm

I've spoken to Tom and that is what he told me. Getting his job back was always what he wanted and never considered playing elsewhere. Zac wanted to be close to his family. Maybe what I am told face to face isn't necessarily what is told to the club.

We will agree to disagree on Bately.

I agreed that Wilson was a good get, hopefully he gets back on the park soon. Can play.

Our zone needs a total overhaul. It really troubles me that we have had no ruckman come from our zone for ages (except Durdin as someone pointed out but he obviously didn't get to play much). Must be a few out there.

No doubt Collins had a lot of contacts and pull because of his past and made attracting players from across the border easier. As a coach and mentor I would get Collins back in a heartbeat. Always been one of my favourites. That is a very good point about him leaving no recruiting structure in place. That's not Collins fault that's a club issue.

I'm not having a direct crack at the people personally recruiting committee I'm sure they are trying but as I said 8 months ago that recruiting is a specialist position and that should be the only thing they focus on. That is recruiting and working our zone (as I said earlier I count them one in the same)  

Plenty of work for David to do.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Mon May 15, 2017 9:41 pm

BTW it is good we can actually have a discussion about these issues without it becoming personal or a victim mentality appearing. We all want the same thing.... a successful club
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by aldo russian on Tue May 16, 2017 6:40 am

Yes and I agree with your point (or at least my reading of it) that we need to get better at attracting players from outside the club, but I am aware of how much work goes into getting former players back. There's no guarantees with them. e.g. Welsh and Tiller.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by TAAARS on Tue May 16, 2017 9:33 am

I wouldn't be too harsh on Scotty Welsh. I reckon he did us a favour as he knew his body was shot. If memory serves me correctly he signed with the eagles,played a few games did little, then retired injured half way through the year? Imagine if we had paid him for that.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by TAAARS on Tue May 16, 2017 9:50 am

As for counntry zones that is a good point. They have fallen away as a source of players. However it is nation wide problem for all clubs and codes. As jobs disappear in the country, families move to the cities looking for work particularly in small rural areas. A kid from a particular country zone then becomes a kid in a city zone usually different from the one he started in. Roxby is a case in point. When we first took it over it had terrific potential. Remember the big pit? Biggest in the world etc. Then BHP changed it's mind. Roxby has downsized heaps. I know this as a fact as I have family up there.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Tue May 16, 2017 10:07 am

It would be an interesting exercise to do country players % 15 years ago to country % now
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by Lachlan on Tue May 16, 2017 1:48 pm

The Facts are we have the worst list in the league and we are long way off the 9th placed side. To win 2 of our past 23 matches is testament to that. Therefore we need to become the best recruiting side in the competition otherwise our current position on the ladder will remain.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by Wolf Pack on Tue May 16, 2017 5:11 pm

Speaking with a Father whose Son is a fringe player at another SANFL club:
He gets $300 for a league game.
Players can get between $700-$1000 per game at Amateur / Country clubs. They train once or twice a week only.
This is a problem we face plus we have a reduced spending cap!!
We have to develop young talent and I think Gavin Colville is doing a great job.
Getting ready made players from interstate is only going to get more difficult I think.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by brodlach on Tue May 16, 2017 5:31 pm

Totally agree

Have a mate who played at the Eagles, won 3 premierships in the reserves and was getting $75 a game. Plays elsewhere this season for 8 times that amount and only had to train once a week. Fitness freak do trains more than that
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by billrobs1 on Tue May 16, 2017 11:15 pm

We don't have the skill but we have the endeavour. Make a change...

Play defensive......Play ugly, defensive, old style, accountable footy.

What have we got to lose. It can only get worse if we do nothing.....please MM don't continue to steer this course. Swallow your pride, put 2015 behind us and make a radical change to the game plan.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by TAAARS on Wed May 17, 2017 12:52 pm

Who would be a coach? When Collo coached us we had howls of protest that our game plan was too defensive,boring etc. Along came Mickan who announced we would pay a more attacking style. Now we have calls to get more defensive,play ugly etc. Go figure?
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by billrobs1 on Wed May 17, 2017 1:45 pm

TAAARS wrote:Who would be a coach? When Collo coached us we had howls of protest that our game plan was too defensive,boring etc. Along came Mickan who announced we would pay a more attacking style. Now we have calls to get more defensive,play ugly etc. Go figure?

For the record, I was a big advocate of Collins. During his tenure we were competitive every week.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by TAAARS on Wed May 17, 2017 2:25 pm

Not saying you werent billrobs. I thought Collo was ok too and he certainly tightened our defensive play. Just saying back then on this very site there were numerous complaints about it is too boring to watch and concerns we would have no supporters left if it didnt change. Now we have calls to go defensive again.
As i said .Who would coach...dammed if you do dammed if you dont.
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Re: West v Sturt

Post by Mypaspective on Wed May 17, 2017 3:07 pm

Yeah skills & poor decision making is killing us.

3 out 5 games (South North & Sturt) we have been a chance & have held the lead at various times but lost control in short periods of 10-15mins. By memory our aggregate loss for those 3 games has been about a total of 46 points, which compared to last year is a big improvement. We were losing by 60-100pts per game. Also 2 of those games were played at grounds we have always struggled at even when playing well. Can't complain about a lack of endeavour.

I would personally rather stay the course we are on than go back to slow, negative, dull & boring to watch footy. That would be going backwards.

I do concede it is tough & frustrating watching us at the moment though.
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