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Post by Oldfella on Wed May 29, 2019 2:22 pm

Great idea mikeme

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Post by cuban on Thu May 30, 2019 9:37 am

I've been thinking about this for some time and I now just feel defeated.
I've been a die hard supporter of the bloods since I was a kid but I now have to accept the fact that we are just a feeder club in a feeder competition. The afl have rubbed this into my face with the mid season draft.
I have lost all confidence in the sanfl - they do not have the best interest of the sanfl clubs as their priority, they are more concerned about bending over for the afl.
I have also lost faith in West Adelaide.
I want to support a club that takes winning a premiership seriously as it's number 1 priority. West are more concerned about making the sanfl happy than doing everything they can to win a premiership - accepting a lower salary cap is proof of this.
If West Adelaide want me back as a die hard supporter then they need to earn it and stand up to the sanfl and afl. Do not accept a lower salary cap. Make the players commit by not accepting anyone who wishes to join the mid season draft - no matter how good a player they are. West needs to show some toughness and integrity - that will earn back my support.
I don't give a crap about players that want to join the afl - if they can not commit to playing for West Adelaide for the whole season than they should not be accepted!
Everybody is congratulating Will and John but not me. The fact that they bailed on West Adelaide mid season shows no loyalty or integrity.
I've been a silver member for years but I will not renew next year unless West Adelaide show me they care only about winning the premiership.
If West Adelaide is not all in then neither am I.
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Post by loppy19 on Thu May 30, 2019 11:00 am

Hard to argue with you Cuban
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Post by Oldfella on Thu May 30, 2019 1:20 pm

Cuban,

As a 68 year old (young) Life Member who has followed West Adelaide since i was a child I share your angst with the clubs position and respect your heartfelt word which in the main i emphasis with.

Specifically your comments on the SANFL ---- whilst acknowledging that the SANFL can do little against the AWFULL (the SANFL is a feeder competition to the AWFULL -- fact of life as they have the money!)and do try to help the clubs in ways we do not hear about however they also make some terrible decisions that dramatically have effected the various clubs.

They should be actively assisting (with no conditions) those clubs damaged by the mini-draft and should be actively supporting the recruitment of best possible players not the opposite

However, I have a different opinion on some issues you raise.

West are more concerned about making the sanfl happy than doing everything they can to win a premiership - accepting a lower salary cap is proof of this.

This is not an accurate reflection on what happened IMO --- the club urgently needed funding to stay financially viable and requested that SANFL give an early advancement of funding from the sale of Football Park which in the SANFL's wisdom (LOL) agreed to providing West Adelaide agreed to a reduced salary cap ???? ---- after what was i believe a very heated board meeting the club accepted the SANFL's crap offer as there was limited alternate choices.

I believe strongly that from the President down (past and present) all staff and volunteers are strongly dedicated to the clubs football performance and i cannot support any suggestion different ---- however, it must be recognized that if the club becomes financially nonviable then there is no footy program and as such the present and past boards have been placed in a difficult position where the continuation of the club MUST take precedence.

I believe that in life family comes first and the West Adelaide Football Club and all who are part of it are my second family and as such i cannot and will not turn my back on the club and walk away ---- to quote my late great father "OF COURSE HE IS MY FRIEND HE IS A WEST ADELAIDE SUPPORTER".

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Post by Lee Harradine on Thu May 30, 2019 1:33 pm

Cuban, I share your thoughts.  I made it clear in my speeches that we had to do just that, stand up to the SANFL. It probably cost me my job.

If members knew the full conditions put on us by the SANFL. they would be shocked.  

It boils down to football v $100K.  I pushed for football and to stand on our own feet, but there was little Board support for that.

The new Board needs full support from all of us. I am happy to help on the football side of the club.

Murray has said there will be a members' meeting in June. An excellent idea and we should all attend and give support and ask the questions you have.


Last edited by Lee Harradine on Thu May 30, 2019 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by LukeO9 on Thu May 30, 2019 2:01 pm

Am I now to understand that the SANFL sanctioned the mid-season draft without opposition?
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Post by cuban on Thu May 30, 2019 2:12 pm

Thanks for the response Lee and I am happy to take back my comment about West trying to make the sanfl happy.
It sounds like the club didn't have any good choice but in my opinion they took the wrong one. To me this looks like the sanfl don't care about the clubs and West are putting football second.
That's not good enough for me. My time is limited on the weekend (I have 3 young kids all playing footy) and I'm not going to waste it on a club that isn't serious about winning a premiership. I'm sick of us being at the bottom of the ladder with the club not doing everything they can to climb it.
I may go to a few more home games during the year but I won't go out of my way to attend each game like I used to.
When West Adelaide decide to stand up for themselves and go all out for the premiership I will be back and I really hope that is sooner rather than later. If they wait too long I believe they will lose too many supporters and then the club will be in real trouble.
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Post by Oldfella on Thu May 30, 2019 2:15 pm

I'm not sure i understand your question luke09?

It was reported in the paper that all 8 original clubs raised objections with the SANFL in regards to the mid-season draft and that they got no compensation ---- not sure that the SANFL sanctioned the mid-season draft as they had no choice on the matter but it was reported that they did try to negotiate (unsuccessfully) with the AWFULL.

The AWFULL made the decision and that was that from my understanding.

The question now is what is the SANFL is going to do to assist those clubs impacted and to protect the standard of the competition.

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Post by Lee Harradine on Thu May 30, 2019 2:41 pm

Cuban, no need to take anything back. I totally agree with you on all points. I think the SANFL see us as a weak club and treats us accordingly.  To be fair, we have been weak often, but it needs a united Board and team, not personal agendas, to fight that, as some other clubs have.

I have followed Westies since the late 50's as a young kid. I share your feelings.

If anyone is interested in sharing their journey following the Bloods, let me know and I will look at incorporating a chapter on the thoughts of loyal supporters in my book. It is coming along well and I hope it can be finished late next year.

Adam Richardson is coming over soon and I'll be catching up with him.
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Post by Oldfella on Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 pm

When is my interview Lee Very Happy

My family is surely worth half a paragraph LOL

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Post by Lee Harradine on Thu May 30, 2019 2:56 pm

Very much so.
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Post by LukeO9 on Thu May 30, 2019 3:13 pm

Oldfella wrote:I'm not sure i understand your question luke09?
It was a comment, not a question, of which I already knew the answer.
Yes, the SANFL is furious.

My comment comes from this thread appearing to go off topic.
Talk of "defeat" and "the SANFL can do little against the [AFL]" seemed to have created a pessimistic attitude that redirected the disappointment toward the Club and the SANFL.

On the topic of the mid-season draft, we are united with the SANFL.

There is 1 major factor that not only makes our cause just, but also renders a defense of the AFL's position untenable - that being the absolute inaccuracy of the notion that the SANFL is obstructing the integrity of the AFL, which includes blocking the promotion of particular players. This is done by demonstrating the current facilitatory nature of player development and transfer to the AFL by SANFL Clubs between seasons.

We should be looking at ways in which we can assist the SANFL to remove the mid-season draft.
By posting "...still thinking" above doesn't mean no idea has come forth, just a question of viability. Here, coordination with SANFL CEO Jake Parkinson or alike may help. Lee, expect a PM soon.
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Post by aldo russian on Thu May 30, 2019 3:13 pm

I'd prefer supporters to agitate for change without threatening to hurt the club. Our club needs every bit of physical and financial support it can get, and threatening to withdraw some of that only makes it harder for the club to achieve what we're demanding of them anyway. Let's make our objections known, wide and loud, and forcefully, but let's continue to support our club regardless.
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Post by Oldfella on Thu May 30, 2019 3:18 pm

Well put Aldo -- i wished there was a like button on this site

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Post by firstblood on Thu May 30, 2019 3:49 pm

The SANFl hierarchy and clubs should vote for a Brexit..err i mean AFLexit. Smile
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Post by Lee Harradine on Thu May 30, 2019 4:01 pm

Correct, Aldo, it needs all of us to give full support at another difficult time for the club.

This is an unwelcome circumstance in the middle of a season, but we all need one thing, the commitment and drive to win a pt
premiership ASAP.

Don't underestimate the ability of members to have a part in our recovery. The club would welcome this and I'm committed to doing so also.

Concerned members should seriously think of standing for a members' rep Board position at the next AGM, with the support of ss many posters and readers as possible.
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Post by cuban on Thu May 30, 2019 4:41 pm

Sorry guys, but I'm not threatening to hurt the club. I have just lost enthusiasm because I know the sanfl is just a "feeder" league now - the afl have proven that with their mid season draft. This is not a threat, it's just the way I feel.
I do feel defeated because the afl can do whatever they want (eg the mid season draft) and the sanfl can't (or wont) do anything about it.
Sure, the sanfl was against the mid season draft but apart from writing the afl a letter, what else did they do? Do they plan on doing anything to prevent it in the future? I don't know the answer but my guess is they won't. They do not have a good track record of standing up to the afl.
They should be supporting the sanfl clubs as much as possible and putting them first but they seem more interested in supporting the afl and the afl clubs to the detriment of the sanfl clubs.
I will get behind and support the underdog, fighting against the big dog (I have been a passionate West Adelaide supporter my whole life after all) but I can't support them when they prefer to bend over than fight.
I know this is a pessimistic attitude but I have been optimistic ever since the crows joined the afl, but the sanfl has steadily declined. I can't deny it anymore, the sanfl is no longer a strong, self supporting league - they are and have accepted the status of being a "feeder" league.
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Post by Lee Harradine on Thu May 30, 2019 5:14 pm

The AFL has power over the SANFL, so the DANFL won't resist, but will only issue words.

The SANFL has power over the clubs and never hesitates to use that power, without question or discussion.

I agree, Cuban, most clubs resist that power, IMO we also need to, otherwise we will be forever handicapped.

There
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Post by aldo russian on Thu May 30, 2019 7:37 pm

I hate this scenario as well cuban, I resent the AFL for what they've done to my enjoyment of football and my club, but the SANFL are dependent on the AFL to the tune of a million bucks a year which makes it pretty tricky to tell them to jam it. They have us where they want us.
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Post by bruce cameron on Fri May 31, 2019 11:33 am

aldo russian wrote:I hate this scenario as well cuban, I resent the AFL for what they've done to my enjoyment of football and my club, but the SANFL are dependent on the AFL to the tune of a million bucks a year which makes it pretty tricky to tell them to jam it. They have us where they want us.

I, like all other posters, am sick to death of the way the local league is treated, not just by the AFL, but by the media and  supporters of the AFL who have no time for a lesser competition. Grass roots football is incredibly important. It provides an environment which is accessible to all and fosters a sense of community. The Mark Mickan story is proof of this. Contributions came from a wide range of football people, many not from West Adelaide. As far as I'm aware SANFL players are not contractually bound to contribute to the wider community, but many do as well as working full time. Unlike the AFL, the SANFL provides an experience open to all families, irrespective of income. SANFL clubs don't play interstate every second week. The sheer scale of the AFL prevents the level of involvement/participation that can be experienced at the local level. We were forced to accept AFL reserves teams into our competition. No salary cap for them. The mid season draft is immoral as well as unnecessary, but what can be done about it? The AFL is all powerful and can impose their will on lesser leagues. The media is our only hope. The media is probably not interested in SANFL clubs whinging about the mid season draft - not all that newsworthy unless the clubs do something to create interest in the story. This needs to be club driven without the involvement of the SANFL. Most people love sticking up for the underdog, especially against a tyrannical bully. I'm not sure how this could be done, but how about this. All supporters have access to the oval at 1/4 and 3/4 time. The 8 clubs organise for their supporters to occupy the ground at one of these breaks and make their opposition to the mid season draft known. Banners and chants would help get the message across. Other grievances could also be highlighted. The media is tipped off and coverage is aired, hopefully on the national networks. With all 8 clubs involved the message would be much stronger, creating a sense of unity amongst the clubs. Nothing illegal is being done. We leave the field at the end of the break, albeit slowly. The last quarter is late getting underway as a few thousand supporters have to leave via a few access  points. We can't have people injuring themselves climbing over fences. This provides the media with about 10 minutes to film and interview people.  With 100% commitment from the 8 clubs this would be an effective way of highlighting the issues.
The AFL can beat their chests about increased profits, expansion into China and the success of AFLWL, but what are they doing for 'lesser' leagues. The reported 1 million  dollars that the AFL gives to the SANFL each year is peanuts. They could pay 10 million and not even miss it. The SANFL is attempting to expand an 'inclusive' league. I'm not sure if they receive any extra funding for this.
My idea might be fanciful, but not beyond the realms of the possible.
The AFL craps on about improving its 'product'. I don't give a s*** about their 'product', I just want to see my football team competitive. As Aldo mentioned, the AFL is responsible for decreasing our enjoyment of football.
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Post by Lee Harradine on Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:43 am

What is missed about us being 2 players short a year due to salary cap restrictions for 2 years, then one short this year, is this: it is cumulative.  That is, we're 5 good players worse off than other clubs.  The result of that is now obvious.

I will be encouraging the club to forego the extra SANFL funding and have a full salary cap.  It is extra funding and our financial situation has improved enough that it is now helpful, but not essential.

This is the key question.  I feel we have to give football higher priority. I sympathise with those sad about our football performance. I can say with certainty that Glenelg are far worse off than us financially. They don't accept the extra funding.

They're top.
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Post by LukeO9 on Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:58 am

bruce cameron wrote:.... how about this. All supporters have access to the oval at 1/4 and 3/4 time. The 8 clubs organise for their supporters to occupy the ground at one of these breaks and make their opposition to the mid season draft known. Banners and chants would help get the message across. Other grievances could also be highlighted. The media is tipped off and coverage is aired, hopefully on the national networks.
Good idea.
bruce cameron wrote:My idea might be fanciful, ....
No, it isn't.
But may I suggest a less ambitious organisation with just us at our home game, with encouragement to other clubs to do the same throughout the season. Also, I'd like to suggest that this action not take place next week against Adelaide, as they have no supporters. What about vs South June 30? South are also directly involved having lost their ruckman.
Perhaps another, minor alteration, having just 1 quarter break targeted; 1/4 or 3/4.

And yet another: start a separate thread for this
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Post by Oldfella on Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:10 am

Luke09 and Bruce Cameron ------ great idea and comments.

Only issue i have is that if the SANFL gets wind of this will they will overnight ban supporters on the field at the breaks in play ---- i remember the "No AFL in the SANFL" campaign how quickly they banned and removed signs that supporters where holding up at the game

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Post by LukeO9 on Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:04 am

Oldfella wrote:Only issue i have is that if the SANFL gets wind of this will they will overnight ban supporters on the field at the breaks in play ---- i remember the "No AFL in the SANFL" campaign how quickly they banned and removed signs that supporters where holding up at the game

Oldfella, the difference there is the SANFL supported the inclusion of theAFL reserves teams. With the mid-season draft, the SANFL is just as pissed off, well, appear to be.
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Post by Oldfella on Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:28 am

The SANFL did support the inclusion that is true and it is also true that they have made public statements against the mid season draft in response to (i believe) strong demand from all 8 original clubs.

However, like the "inclusion" the SANFL must protect the AFL $$$ and if the proposed action causes potential embarrassment to the AFL public image (likely) then a short quick phone call from the AFL to the SANFL will most likely have the results i have indicated before any action can take place.

Honestly, i do not believe any action by SANFL supporters will have the slightest impact on the AFL and directions they take (all powerful and stuff all care of the impact on lower grades) further i do not believe apart from public statement there is nothing that the SANFL can do to impact the AFL and even with these public statements the SANFL need to be very circumspect in the wording of their objections or adverse comments.

IMO, supporters and clubs should be harassing the SANFL to do what they can to effectively compensate any SANFL club affected by the mid season draft and MOST IMPORTANT these call by the club should be public not hidden under the normal veil of secrecy!

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